Christine post-POTO musical

[cosette_giry]

One thing that annoys me so much about POTO sequels in general (those for the musical specifically, and not just LND) is that when it comes to Raoul and Christine’s marriage, it’s either that Raoul cannot stand how amazing Christine is and the marriage goes to shit because only Erik can really understand her, either that they live happily ever after without anything troubling their happiness. 

And of course, I know people spoke AT LENGTH that Christine is not at all in the same social class as Raoul is - Raoul is a nobleman, Christine is a dancer turned opera singer, which did not have the same prestige at the time as it does today - but to assume those two are going to have a happily ever after, or that Raoul will see himself as lesser… that’s forgetting two important points. 

Of course, there’s no denying Christine and even Raoul will suffer from PTSD for a very long time, especially that they probably won’t get proper care for it as it is the 1880s and psychology wasn’t there yet (PTSD became a thing mostly when they examined traumatized soldiers after WWI, although I could be wrong on that one). 

But the 1880s-1890s is a really interesting time because you have noblemen in the UK, meanwhile, who are marrying American ladies - the Gilded Age Heiresses, as they are called. It was at a time where some English lords were starting to realize their income wouldn’t be enough to sustain their properties (see Downton Abbey, also Winston Churchill’s own mother, Jennie Jerome). 

Obviously, Christine doesn’t quite measure up to the American Dollar Princesses: they have money, and she doesn’t. But you can guess some people in the good British society didn’t exactly welcome those ladies with open arms, although there was no denying that times were changing. 

I don’t know how French noblemen were faring at the time, although my guess would be that for many of them, their position would be a lot more precarious since France isn’t a monarchy anymore, unlike the UK. But again, I’d have to dig it into it. 

Anyway, just Christine trying to adapt to a whole new society entirely, which is the upper class, not as a potential protegee but as an equal by marriage, bringing along her trauma baggage in the lot, makes a fascinating story in itself I haven’t seen developed in any fanfic. It’s a time where being a noble birth isn’t a requirement anymore to marry into nobility, and society is changing as they enter the 20th century. It would be a Cinderella story of sorts, but with a lot more realism than most stories of the type. Of course, Raoul would back her up, but she’d have to face brand new challenges, and probably have to change again as a person. 

Can someone actually please write that fanfic before I start doing research and outlining it and writing it while I have zero time to do so

Comments

[erimia]

"Christine adapting to the new society after marrying Raoul" is one of my favorite phic plots, but so far the only stories with this premise that I've seen were E/C fics that used her inability to adapt as a reason to break her up with Raoul. :( I think that the lack of such fics can be explained, besides the unpopularity of R/C fics in general, by the fact that they would require a reasonable knowledge of the time period, French culture of this time period, what life of the nobility was like within this culture and how all this would impact the lives of the characters, and most fanfics fail in getting even one of those things straight.

[cosette_giry]

One thing I never quite understood is some people's tendency to see Christine as a social outcast - I think she has her head up in the clouds for sure, and most actresses in the musical tend to portray her as rather soft-spoken and shy, but those are all characteristics that were pretty much expected of your typical Victorian lady.

I guess it kind of comes from the 2004 film, that took a lot of cues from Disney's Beauty and the Beast - notably Belle being an outcast in her own village like the Beast is an outcast. The problem is that while she is at a pretty low rank in society, Christine doesn't really seem to be pushed away or seen as even a little strange by everyone else - except Carlotta, of course, since she sees her as competition, and I don't even include the managers in there since as they said themselves, their goals are 1) Making money; 2) Getting peace and quiet, even if that means downgrading Christine and re-hiring Carlotta. Of course, there's a certain shared pain she and the Phantom share, and that's part of what attracted him to her in the first place, but the crux of the matter is that the Phantom is the type to run away from what hurts and live in fantasy land, which is what Christine ultimately refuses, since she makes the decision of going from girl to woman.

So to me, Christine running back to the Phantom is her more or less reverting back to her old self, because she made the clear choice in the musical to stay in the real world and "face the music", if you'll excuse the pun. It's not that she doesn't fit in and that no one but the Phantom can understand her, it is that she wants to be part of society, but she has to learn that she has to make her path herself - Raoul can't always do that for her like she was a child.

(I have to admit I find it pretty odd I've never been an Erik/Christine shipper, considering my other ships, which are due to my love of gothic romances, and/or often involve Heroine/Villain pairings or at least involve a Byronic Hero/Homme Fatale/Bad Boy, but then again, POTO is meant to be a deconstruction of all those tropes.)

I guess that's what I like about that type of story, of Christine having to adapt now to a higher society now that she's a Vicomtesse - because the whole point of the musical is that she finds out that she's stronger than she thinks she is.

Of course, as you said, it would take a whole lot of research about French nobility in the 1880s - I spent a few years in France due to my dad being French and coming from Brittany (the same region where you can find Perros-Guirec), so I do know a whole lot about French history, but not too much about that topic, sadly - although I'd love to dig into it. I lack the time, though XD

[erimia]

Yeah, I think the reasons why Christine is made to be an outcast are (1) making her have more in common with Erik and (2) making her more relatable for fans, who often perceive themselves as outcasts and are drawn to Erik's story because of this. Maybe there is also an idea that a person who is dreamy and "weird" is likely to be mistreated. I think Christine is not so much an outcast but rather withdraws from people herself because of trauma/depression over her father's death and generally introversive personality. Of course, she can become an outcast in the aristocratic society in the angstiest interpretations of her new life...

I expected to like E/C much more than I do now, mainly because I like artistic couples (and I also do love me some Gothic horror and hommes fatals). But it turned out that in the musical, she is afraid of him and uncomfortable in his presence much more than I remember her in the movie that I watched long ago, and he is just too dangerious and deraged, and this is just not fun, at least if you want to read about relatively functional and stable relationship. The creative aspect is also not explored in a satisfactory manner neither in the musical not in the fanfiction, usually the music is treated as nothing more than a symbol of their love, and this is just boring.

[cosette_giry]

I have a feeling that in an aristocratic world, Christine will be an outcast - at least at first, since everyone will see her as a social climber who managed to snatch someone guillible enough to marry her. Not to mention that it's probably well-known that she was at the center of the whole matter with the Phantom, so really nasty rumors could easily arise from that :( I don't think Raoul would let it fly, of course, since he was having none of it when Carlotta was doing it, but he won't be able to stop people from thinking it, sadly. :(

I think what makes the difference between Erik/Christine and other Heroine/Villain ships (with its Byronic, Homme Fatal variants) is that on the male side, he'll always show a certain reverence for his love interest which you don't see other people manifesting to her - and if there's a Nice Guy lying around, the Byronic Hero/Homme Fatal will show that his devotion to the heroine goes beyond the Nice Guy's affection. Of course, the villain here might be dangerous, but you never feel (or at least, rarely) feel as if the heroine is in any real danger around him. An example on the more extreme side of things is Edith Cushing and Thomas Sharpe in Crimson Peak - **SPOILER ALERT, GO TO END SPOILER TO SKIP IT** for sure, Thomas is complicit in Edith getting poisoned, but it's also very clear that ultimately, on many aspects, Edith has the upper hand on him and that's what saves him from Lucille's influence, in the end. **END SPOILER**

On Erik/Christine's side of things, Erik does have a certain reverence for her - but it's not for her as a person, but more as a puppy. And of course, Christine is a bit of a little lost puppy kind of person at the beginning of the musical, but she doesn't want to remain that way. And while there is a sexual subtext (and that's where a lot of people get confused, imo - SCHUMACHER SURE DID), it's not the Angela Carter-esque type of sexuality where she can go from girl to woman. And depending on the actor, the Final Lair shows that he's not beyond hurting her :( (I will be forever sad Angela Carter didn't try tackling POTO, though)

And in Erik's case, he realizes that in order to heal, he'll have to let Christine go, simply because she'll never be happy with him - it is not a case of the Heroine running off with the Byronic Hero/Homme Fatale because society is too oppressive, quite the contrary...

I think the only adaptation where I have no flipping clue why she ends up with Raoul instead of the Phantom is the one with Charles Dance, but that's a story for another day XD

[erimia]

I think that most E/C shippers prefer to interpret their relationship as this standard Heroine/Villain stuff that you described where "his devotion to the heroine goes beyond the Nice Guy's affection" and "you feel as if the heroine is in any real danger around him". :( I think that, indeed, the fact that in this case the presence of both the "reverence" and "lack of danger" is quite arguable is among the reasons that make this couple unattractive for me, together with the extreme inequality and lack of trust and understanding, and the lack or lesser presence of these problems is also the reason why the Charles Dance version is the one where I like the relationship between Erik and Christine the most.

Hm, why does she end with Philippe? I have a feeling that the earthly love vs heavenly love dynamic really fits this version. Ironically enough, I find this interpretation for this movie way more convincing than the usual "Phantom represents forbidden sexual passion while Raoul is a safe sexless Gothic hero" for ALW and Leroux. What this Christine may have with Philippe are the ordinary and natural parts of life: romantic love, marriage, family and yes, sex, while her relatioship with Cherik are more dreamlike, escapist, idealized, and have a general feel of something that is more complex than usual romantic love, something that would be very strong and important even if it didn't have a sexual aspect. It's pretty sad to compare it with the usual interpretation where the roles are reversed, because the supporters of it strongly imply that being with the sexless Gothic hero!Raoul would mean for Christine denying an important part of herself and that it would Suppress Her Sexuality, rather than that it would mean that their love is so strong that it would be harmonious even without sexuality playing a huge role in it.

[cosette_giry]

Inequality and lack of trust are two very good points as well - inequality, because Erik clearly wants Christine to fit an ideal with impossibly high standards, and he's set for disappointment when she'll fail. Lack of trust... well, it goes without saying XD

The best performances I've seen of the musical 95% of the time involve an actor who actually gives a darn about Raoul's part - and as I've seen some people on Tumblr say, he needs to be a solid romantic lead in order to show the audience why Christine would go with him. Otherwise, I don't think it'd be only a case of "she should have chosen the Phantom", but also "why doesn't she just ditch both? One is crazy and one is boring."

But although I changed my mind since, one of the factors why I didn't like Erik/Christine when I first saw the 2004 movie was that I thought Emmy!Christine was dull as bricks and apart from being very pretty and singing well, I didn't really see why the Phantom was so obsessed with her XD So her and the Guy With Terrible Hair deserved each other, in my humble opinion (what can I say, I was 15 at the time!). What didn't help is that the movie, by giving Meg more to do, then made her more proactive than Christine, which at the time, left me wondering: "Why are they going for the boring girl as the heroine and not focus on her kickass ballerina friend?"

This said, the cynical part of me wonders if the fact that Emmy!Christine is kind of dull made her a lot easier for some of the audience to self-insert into her - and since that's a device that's been used more than once in media, I tend to think nowadays it was intentional...

[igenlode]

That's an interesting (and probably correct) interpretation: that Philippe represents carnal desires (and, I would argue, the character who needs to be redeemed through unselfish love) while Cherik represents a sexless escapist relationship ;-p